RTV21: Ambassador Orav, thank you very much for sharing your time with RTV21 today!  

Ambassador Orav: Thank you very much for inviting me!  

RTV21: Ambassador, I will start this interview with the recent developments. The EU Special Representative for the Dialogue, Peter Sørensen, has been in Kosovo for the first time since taking office. What offer was on the table, considering that the Dialogue is in a sort of blockage? 

Ambassador Orav: The new European Union Special Representative, Peter Sørensen, was appointed more than a month ago. Now, his first visit to the region was to Kosovo. Yes, in the beginning of the week, he was three days here. He was here more or less in the listening mode. He met with all political leaders, he met with NGOs, and he met with the business community. He travelled around Kosovo to learn exactly what could be done. He did not come here with any kind of offers or proposals because next he needs to go also to Belgrade to see what they are expecting and then to prepare his next steps.  

RTV21: So, it is all about restarting the Dialogue? The Dialogue was in a blockage, the Dialogue had problems, the Dialogue was in sort of a difficulty.  

Ambassador Orav: The word “difficulty” is probably the correct one. Because the Dialogue we have already, or I would rather say the normalisation process since 2013. There have been many people who have been dealing with it. There is certain progress, but of course, the final goal of this normalisation process is the full normalization [of relations] between Serbia and Kosovo. Because if we talk about the membership of both Kosovo and Serbia in the European Union, then this normalisation is a must. And I am very glad that now everything is in place from the side of the European Union - , the people who are dealing with it and also the ideas how to move forward. Now it is up to the parties, and we very much hope that there will be a new government in place also in Kosovo as soon as possible so that we can continue.  

RTV21: Is there any new enthusiasm in the European Union that the Dialogue would continue to have its normal path, that there will be results? Or are you going to change a bit something of what has been done so far? I want to say, will the EU change its approach from what has been done so far?  

Ambassador Orav: To take a job like as Peter Sørensen has taken, there should be a lot of enthusiasm and optimism—but a critical optimism, of course. Because doing a work like this and waking up in the morning believing that, you know, today I’m going to my office again and I cannot achieve anything, this won’t work. So he believes that we can move forward, I believe {that we can move forward same as] the new High Representative. So it means that, yes, from our side, we want to move forward, because we want to bring both Serbia and Kosovo closer to the European Union sooner rather than later.  

RTV21: I am asking you because there are different and difficult situations. First, in Kosovo there is still no government after the elections. Second, there is a tense situation in Serbia nowadays, today for example. Does the EU believe that the parties are able to implement what has been agreed upon earlier?

Ambassador Orav: I think it will not be a serious approach from our side if we lean back and wait for better times to come. Because always something is wrong in this world and the EU is the one who tries to fix the things. Of course, other actors in the world are breaking the things, and the European Union is usually the one who is fixing the things. And this is always much more complicated than breaking things. So, the government formation takes more time here. We fully understand this. We very much hope that the new government will be a stable one, which is able to cooperate and to deliver.

RTV21: So, you are not going to wait for the parties to create an agenda. You will call them and bring them to Brussels to agree or to discuss together?

Ambassador Orav: Well, I mean a good example is that Peter Sørensen was here this week already to learn what can be done, now. Probably quite soon, he will travel to Belgrade. Then, let’s see how we can continue because at the moment, no plan was offered to the parties here before he speaks with others. Of course, I have heard some kind of expectations that now this is a totally different approach, that everything will be done differently. I think the 2013 agreement is something the European Union is very proud of, and we cannot forget it. So, we have to implement it, we, the parties must implement all the agreements which were reached—there are more than 90 agreements. Some of them have already been implemented, some of them so so, and some of them have been somehow forgotten. But all of them have to be implemented, so this is also the job of the facilitator of the European Union: to offer the parties the opportunity or to find ways to ensure that everything will be implemented. 

RTV21: So, if we talk about the Basic Agreement and the annex, or the Ohrid Annex as itis called, those documents cannot be changed, they cannot be changed so far, and whoever is in power in Kosovo or Serbia must implement them strictly. I am asking this because there are strong reactions from the opposition in Kosovo against these documents. Are we going to see that you are going to push these parties to implement those two basic agreements?

Ambassador Orav: In last year, the discussion was mostly about the Ohrid normalisation agreement, but there are many other agreements, which still have not been implemented. And in parallel with this Ohrid agreement, parties have to also move forward with other agreements. And yes, I mean everything what is agreed has to be implemented. If it is not, if something else is agreed, but -at the moment- there is nothing else agreed and we very much hope those agreements will be implemented. 

Now, if we take the Association of Serb-majority Municipalities, yes. It has to be implemented and this is one of the few, or only agreement that has been ratified by the Kosovo Assembly with a two-thirds majority. So, it means that if it is ratified, then it has to be implemented. If step one is done, so step two has to be done. But, the same goes also for the other party, for Serbia, because if we are talking about the obligation not to prevent Kosovo to join international organisations, like first of all, if we say it we be in the Council of Europe, they should not prevent it. And this is a very clear position by the European Union, which is also communicated by Brussels several times.

RTV21: But when you mention the draft statute of the Association of Serb-majority Municipalities in Kosovo, there is a document, and that is the EU document, as it has been adopted as the EU document. But, in Kosovo, there are still differing views on that. Between a “non-paper” and an official document, will Kosovo be obliged to send this to its Constitutional Court?

Ambassador Orav: We have the EU Special Representative for the Dialogue, and I do not want to do his job by saying what exactly Kosovo has to do in this regard. Again, the Association of Serb-majority Municipalities is a must. It has to be implemented. And now Peter Sørensen was here to listen to the political leaders, what the expectations are, what could be done, and what cannot be done, but let’s see when he will be back next time and what he will offer or ask the parties to do.

RTV21: So, for the EU, this is the official document?

Ambassador Orav: Yes, true!

RTV21: And you are not going to open or reopen it, if it comes to the next stage after the creation of Kosovo’s new government?

Ambassador Orav: Again, I would not like to comment on this because this is the job of Peter Sørensen, the EU Special Representative, who is paid to do this job.

RTV21: So, Ambassador, to what extent all these steps, including also the implementation of the agreement, the Basic one, the Ohrid Agreement, the draft statute to be sent to the Constitutional Court, to what extent do these steps determine Kosovo’s European path? To what extent do they hinder it?

Ambassador Orav: As I said before also, the final goal of this process is the normalization of relations between Serbia and Kosovo. And this is how they can join the European Union. Of course, before this final normalisation, it is not possible to do it. I do not want to go into every single step now, that if one party or another party is going to do that step or another step, implement this agreement or another agreement. I mean everything has to be implemented, [everything that] is agreed {has to be implemented]. If something else needs to be agreed, fine, but the final goal is the normalisation so that both of them would be welcomed -probably on the same day- in the European Union.

RTV21: But Ambassador, Kosovo has applied for membership to the European Union or has already put forward its application. It is the only country in the Western Balkans that does not have an approximation with the European Union, as the other countries in the Western Balkans, since the application has not been yet discussed by the EU Member States. Kosovars’ expectations are high, but skepticism towards the EU could also increase with inaction in relation to Kosovo.

Ambassador Orav: Yes, Kosovo’s application to join the European Union came in December 2022, and the European Commission is ready to review or give its opinion Kosovo’s membership as soon as the 27 Member States agree to send it to the Commission. So, what is important to mention in this stage is that the EU enlargement policy is back. We say this as a kind of slogan that EU enlargement policy has been the most successful policy, and that is true. But some time before 2022, there was a period when, let’s say, maybe it was not taken so seriously by both sides, but now its back. When the EU talks about enlargement, we are very serious. We, I mean, the Member States of the European Union, and I know it  quite well because before coming here on 1^st September, I was working in Brussels on another side of the street, I mean, representing one Member State in the Council. So, everybody talks seriously about the enlargement in this very confusing, and strange, and dangerous geopolitical environment. We need all of them who are potentially with us. And, of course, all the countries in the Western Balkans are in Europe; they are potentially members of the European Union, and we hope very much to move as quickly as possible. So, I very much hope that this issue you just mentioned will be considered closed soon.

RTV21: You are sending optimism to the Kosovars that they should be optimist in their path towards the European Union membership.

Ambassador Orav: I think in the same way, as I mentioned, those who are working with the enlargement process, if they believe that nothing can be done, and then nothing is going to happen. And if the people of Kosovo believe that nothing can happen, then nothing will happen. And it is important for the government, the next one also, to be ready for the moment, that if the process starts to move, let’s say the train is moving, then the train will not leave without Kosovo. Here it’s very important to also mention one number because now, after the elections, I am meeting also with politicians and talking with lots of people, and then different numbers are used. Different percentages: 42%, 17%. But, the most important number for us is 92. Ninety-two per cent of the Kosovo population supports the membership in the European Union, so they expect to become members. So, that’s the question for you Also, there are no pessimists, maybe that 8% is pessimistic, or for whatever reason, they are not supporters. But 92% are optimistic, and they want to join, which puts a lot of responsibility on our side and a lot of responsibility on the next government to meet the expectations of those people. 

RTV21: But those 92% are waiting for the EU member states to see, to discuss, to open the path for Kosovo, on Kosovo’s application for membership.

You say it will happen when 27 countries will agree among themselves.  

Ambassador Orav: Yes.  

RTV21: And it is quite a long process, Ambassador?  

Ambassador Orav: I no longer know, because things are happening now very quickly. I mean, after the interview, I will check my telephone again to see what kind of world we are living in today; things may happen very quickly. And I very much hope that the next government will be a stable one and that we will have a very close partnership and cooperation, What the government can do, is to convince partners that we have to move forward. 

RTV21: Ambassador, regarding Kosovo’s European future, an electoral process in Kosovo has been conducted. You have met with political leaders from the entire spectrum here in Kosovo after the end of this process. You said that you have discussed the next steps after the elections, and I quote: “Noted that the vast majority of the people in Kosovo aspire to join the EU. The new government must actively pursue reforms to make this happen.” What reforms did you specifically ask from Kosovo’s leadership?  

Ambassador Orav: The European Union, meaning our office here, is preparing every year the annual report. And the idea of this report is to outline everything what should still needs to be done. In an idealistic world, this report should become thinner and thinner every year so that finally, there will be only a few sentences, and the message to the government would be: those fields still need to be done, and then you are in. I mean, we are not living in an idealistic world. We are also telling many other things, pressing different institutions, and so on. But what is important in this annual report, first, when we are preparing it, is that we are working like an X-ray. We need to know everything that is happening in the society. Then we describe the situation and identify the shortcomings—what needs to be done. Then, there are recommendations on what actions should be taken. So, this is a perfect document for the new government if they are going to prepare a coalition agreement or a government program, to take it as a basis and to move towards the European Union. The reforms, there are many things: the rule of law, which is always important in all Western Balkan countries, human rights, economic reform, and environmental reform. So, there is a full range of issues which need to be addressed.  

RTV21: And on top of that, the Dialogue?  

Ambassador Orav: And, of course, on top of that, the normalisation process. All of those things need to be done. Again, the EU is a motivator. Because without the EU’s motivation, many countries, which have joined before, would say, “We don’t need this reform, who cares? It is politically expensive if we are going to do something like this.” Let’s say environment, putting some filters or cleaning tools for factories.It is expensive and then there will be less competitiveness for those factories. So, no politician wants to do this voluntarily. This is pushed by the European Union, and the hope to join the European Union one day is something that helps very much the politicians to do those things which make our world better. Also, when countries are joining the European Union, they can start to work as full-fledged member states.  

RTV21: There is a kind of clash between political forces here in Kosovo on the forming the government. Could a minority government, that may be formed, slow down your demand for reforms? Could there be problems with the path of integration?  

Ambassador Orav: We are visitors to your country and we are not going to say who should be in the government. But what I very much hope that there will be a government as soon as possible when all the procedures, of course, had been met, concerning the vote counting and all the appeals and so on. And I hope very much that this government will be a stable one, with whom is possible to work together, not going immediately to a new election campaign. Because this may undermine a little bit reform and enthusiasm.

RTV21: What does a stable government mean to you?  

Ambassador Orav: A stable government means that if they promise something, then they deliver. [It also means] that they can promise. 

RTV21: Good. There are many concerns after the Banjska case, Ambassador Orav. Kosovo was left under EU measures, but direct responsibility was not demanded from Serbia. Why is there no EU action for Banjska and for other cases, like for example Iber Lepenc?

Ambassador Orav: In the course of two years, two years yes, there have been three serious acts. The first was in May 2023; the second was the Banjska case, and now, of course, this terrorist attack against the water canal. So, what the EU has done? We have shown our solidarity with Kosovo. But in meanwhile also, our position is quite clear, and is also publicly [communicated] many times: all perpetrators of the Banjska case should be brought to justice. We have asked also Serbia to cooperate concerning this case.  

RTV21: When will the EU measures be lifted?  

Ambassador Orav: The discussion is ongoing.  

RTV21: It’s three years since the discussions are ongoing.

Ambassador Orav: The discussion is ongoing. When the measures were introduced, de-escalation, was required, and I can assure you that discussions are going on. But, to lift these measures, all 27 states have to agree. When Peter Sørensen was here, this issue was also raised by all political parties, the business community, and civil society, and he will bring this message back to Brussels.  

RTV21: Why not lifting the measures at the time when you are asking Kosovo and Serbia to sit down? Why not giving some good, positive sign to the parties, especially to Kosovo, that something must be done to move forward? What has hindered the lifting Kosovo’s measures so far?  

Ambassador Orav: As I told, we need consensus. All 27 Member States have to agree, so we hope that this government, which will be formed soon, will help convince the Member States to lift those measures.  

RTV21: Has Kosovo done something wrong—much more wrong that the measures have not yet been lifted? What was the mistake of Kosovo after the Banjska case that did not contribute to lifting the measures?  

Ambassador Orav: Now, the reason why the measures were introduced almost two years ago was different. It was due to the escalation in the north. As I have said, , to lift the measures, we need consensus from all 27 Member States. 

RTV21: Ambassador, we talk about the north and Kosovo. The EU and other countries have asked Kosovo for coordination. But, the government in Pristina says it is taking action based on what has been agreed and its right to extend the sovereignty to every part of Kosovo. Above all, according to the government of Kosovo, the battle is also been fought for the establishment of the rule of law. Wasn’t the EU a bit harsh against Kosovo, specifically when it comes to the northern part of Kosovo?  

Ambassador Orav: Concerning the Serbian-run institutions in Kosovo, the EU’s position is quite clear: that this issue should be settled through the EU-facilitated Dialogue. And as stated, the government acted in a different way. That is the problem.  

RTV21: So, the government did not listen to the EU’s messages? Yes, or no?  

Ambassador Orav: No. I mean, the agreement is, the EU-facilitated agreement, that yes, this should be settled through the Dialogue. [If this is not the case], then there is an issue.  

RTV21: Ambassador Orav, thank you very much for joining me today.  

Ambassador Orav: Thank you very much for this opportunity to come to your studio.

Full interview here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ89rzBaLRw